we have -- >> rose: steroids in baseball or betting on baseball. >> any cheats. i just think cheating in sport is something that just-- is it it kills everybody because it is killing a dream. it's killing something that is escapism for all of us and it has to be pure. >> rose: if lance armstrong says everybody else is doing it. >> it's the i was only obeying orders doctrine. it never carries any succor with me. there's no courage -- >> rose: have you interviewed lance armstrong? >> i've never interviewed him. i would feel very angry if i interviewed him because i know the damage he did to a lot of people, the deliberate damage. he was a nasty piece of work with a lot of these journalists. >> rose: threatening and lawsuits. you know the interesting thing about that, you know, you know that you're lying, so you know who you are. >> it's an amazing thing to then go after people. to deny it but actively sue them and try to ruin their lives, get them fired, wher ruin their jobs and livelihood. more than that with him. he created this whole livestrong charity which rai